At a recent debate held at the Oxford Union, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and musician Winston Marshall discussed whether populism is a threat to democracy in the United States. The debate, marked by strong viewpoints and significant disagreements, highlighted the diverse opinions on the role of populism in political life.

Frankly, Pelosi was mocked and got taken to the woodshed.

Nancy Pelosi, who described herself as a devout Catholic, spoke about the challenges faced by the Democratic Party in connecting with some Americans, especially on contentious issues like gun control, LGBTQ+ rights, and religious beliefs. She noted her concerns about American populism, suggesting that it has taken on an ethno-nationalist tone which could be problematic for the democratic fabric of the nation.

On the other side, Winston Marshall, formerly of Mumford and Sons and now a podcast host, defended populism. He criticized the negative connotations associated with the term “populist,” which he argued is often used by the elite to look down on ordinary people. According to Marshall, figures like former President Obama and Senator Bernie Sanders have also been called populists, indicating a shift in the term’s meaning. He pointed out that the term has been used interchangeably with words like “strongman” and “authoritarian,” reflecting a change in how it is perceived over time.

“If anything, Obama argued that he was the populist. If anything, Obama argued that Bernie was the populist,” Marshall said. “Something curious happens. If you watch Obama’s speeches after that point, more and more recently, he uses the word ‘populist’ interchangeably with ‘strong man,’ ‘authoritarian.’ The word changes meaning. It becomes a negative, a pejorative, a slur.”

Marshall argued, “Elites use it to show their contempt for ordinary people.” He also referred to recent violent incidents, such as the Capitol riots and the attacks on the federal courthouse in Portland, to suggest that violence can emerge from any political movement, not just populism. He emphasized, “Populism is not a threat to democracy. Populism is democracy.”

During the debate, Pelosi responded to Marshall’s comparisons of different violent events, stating, “There is no equivalence there… It is not like what happened on January 6th, which was an insurrection incited by the President of the United States.” Marshall countered by stressing that all political movements can lead to violence.

Marshall also expressed surprise at Pelosi’s stance, noting that traditionally, the left opposed elite perspectives, yet now, he sees the “globalist left” as the new establishment. He provocatively suggested that for Pelosi to argue against this would be counter to her position in the establishment.

Marshall did not hold back on criticisms of current and past political figures, including an implied criticism of President Biden’s competence and controversial remarks about previous election results, which Pelosi rebutted by emphasizing the acceptance of election outcomes despite disagreements.

Finally, Marshall critiqued the mainstream media and Democratic strategies, claiming that if Democrats had focused more on serving the people, Donald Trump would not stand a chance in future elections. He concluded by warning against the dangers of elites who influence social media and other platforms to censor political speech, framing this as a real threat to democracy.

Overall, the debate at the Oxford Union was a lively exchange of views on populism and its impact on American democracy, reflecting deep divisions and ongoing debates within the political landscape of the United States.

Highlighting the Capitol riots on January 6, 2021, which he believed to be “a dark day for America, indeed,” Marshall said: “I’m sure Congresswoman Pelosi will agree that the entire month of June 2020, when the federal courthouse in Portland, Oregon, was under siege and under insurrection by radical progressives, those, too, were dark days for America.”

“There is no equivalence there. . . .  It is not like what happened on January 6th, which was an insurrection incited by the President of the United States,” Pelosi exclaimed.

“Today, particularly in America, the globalist left have become the establishment,” he continued. “I suppose for Mrs. Pelosi to have taken this side of the argument, she’d be arguing herself out of a job.”

“Now, don’t get me wrong, we need elites. If President Biden has shown us anything, we need someone to run the countries,” Marshall said. “When the president has severe dementia, it’s not just America that crumbles, the whole world burns.”

The former banjo player said that Trump should have accepted the election results in 2020, and so should have Pelosi and Hillary in 2016.

So should Hillary in 2016, so should Brussels and Westminster in 2016, and so, too, should Congresswoman Pelosi instead of saying the 2016 election was, quote, ‘hijacked,'” Marshall said.

“It was,” Pelosi said, drawing laughter from the spectators.

“That doesn’t mean we don’t accept the results of it,” she added.

Pelosi fuming.

This is outstanding. Nancy Pelosi waltzes into Oxford Union Debate and gets a populist spanking from Winston Marshall.

Nancy interrupts several times.pic.twitter.com/4JoXYKBbXe

— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) May 11, 2024